To modify, or keep it stock? That is the question. How does Oppo address that problem?

"Noah - Now with more boost." (antriebverliebt) 01/20/2016 at 16:21 • Filed to: None

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This photo depicts an amusing solution to a dilemma all car enthusiasts grapple with. Sometimes, spending thousands of dollars to make radical changes to your ride just doesn’t make any sense. You won’t get that money back and in most cases, you’ll sacrifice comfort and practicality too.

We all know that when you lift a truck and put giant wheels on it, you introduce road noise, sloppy steering, and braking issues. That’s why most off road nuts who take their DDs out into the wilderness stick to mild lifts and slightly larger tires. It’s a sensible compromise, and the reality is that lifts are for squeezing the biggest tire you can into the wheel well. Ground clearance between the dirt and the bottom of your diff is important, and lifting the body 12" higher than your axles is pointless. Unless your vehicle has serious approach/departure angle issues, that won’t solve anything.

Now that’s nice and practical. No gratuitous body lifts in this photograph.

Here’s the opposite end of the spectrum. Lowering your can also be problematic. Once you’re so low to the ground that you need to dodge raised manhole covers, and take speed bumps and an angle, you introduce a wide variety of issues. The same idea applies to people who modify their cars for track use, but to a lesser degree. That involves less camber, more suspension travel, and tires with taller sidewalls.

I’ve spent 4 years watching my friend’s E36 stance project (not pictured) rattle itself to death over and over again. He blows through replacement parts at an alarming rate. The underside of his car, from the frame rails to the exhaust, is completely trashed. He can’t use drive throughs or ATMs properly. He’s even ripped off an oil pan. Plus, riding in his car is uncomfortable and quite frankly terrifying, especially in the rain. The bump steer and the decreased traction from the camber make hydroplaning way too easy. Sure, it’s fun to ride around in his passenger seat below 30 MPH on a sunny day and watch jaws drop. But is it really worth it? I’m not convinced.

Here’s a track rat’s E28. It’s low but it isn’t tucking tire. It isn’t cambered out either. And sure, those race tires probably wear down quickly, but that’s the price you pay for enhanced traction. At least the sidewalls aren’t stretched to the point at which they’re ready to rip themselves off of the bead. Finally, because the owner isn’t pushing the limits of his wheel wells/suspension setup, he can probably swap in a street wheel/tire package if he needs to drive on the street for extended periods of time.

Here’s a VIP’d out example of my car, a Y33 Q45 (Nissan Cima). Sure, it looks pretty cool. I’d approach my car from a more conservative angle if I went this route. Smaller wheels, larger tires, and a little higher. But even if I did that, what would I be left with? This isn’t a performance car. It’s not like I’m going to leave the poor old transmission in 2nd while hooning it in the twisties. And even though the dampers are pretty much shot, the car is still way more comfortable than it would be if I did something like this to it. I don’t want to ruin the ride to look cool. That’s just not my style.

My friends, especially the stance guy, are disappointed that I don’t really want to modify my car. I find that irritating. Sure, they’d get a kick out of looking at it and riding around in it if I decided to go that route. But I just can’t justify it. I don’t want to spend $3000 I’ll never get back on making my car worse. Plus, there are so many different driving experiences out there, and only a finite amount of time + money. I’d rather put that 3k towards something else. This car is dramatically different from my E24 in some ways, but the driving experience is for all intents and purposes identical. It’s slightly quick, the gas mileage is horrible, and it handles like a boat. I love it and I’m glad I found it, but I’m already fantasizing about owning something sporty for the first time. Ultimately, I know I’ll get more enjoyment out of dedicating my car $ to that goal.

So Oppo, how do you handle this dilemma within your own life? Do you simply own multiple cars, both stock and modified? Do you keep your one and only vehicle stock because that’s the practical thing to do? Or do you throw caution into the wind, and modify your DD while dealing with the consequences? Maybe you’ve made mild modifications to keep things practical? I’m curious.

Needmoargarage > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 16:26

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I keep modifying a car until it gets uncomfortable for road use, then buy another. Usually around the time I get a racing seat and/or roll protection I’ve given up dailying it. This is why I have six cars and only drive one.

Also, money. Add up a past project’s receipts and you’ll seriously rethink modifying anything again.

KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 16:27

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If you want a better car, BUY IT!

(with most sincerest apologies to Mr. Iacocca)

d15b > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 16:27

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Quite honestly, I DD my modified vehicle and cruise in my stock car on the weekends. A little ass-backwards, but meh.

Right now I am concerned mostly with the handling of the car. Upgrading power becomes an issue once you cross a certain threshold of bolt-ons.

Noah - Now with more boost. > KusabiSensei - Captain of the Toronto Maple Leafs 01/20/2016 at 16:30

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Exactly!! Why spend thousands turning something into a vehicle it was never designed to be?

Noah - Now with more boost. > d15b 01/20/2016 at 16:31

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That’s an unexpected answer, what vehicles are those if you don’t mind me asking?

deekster_caddy > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 16:32

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I have multiple cars. I used to do mild lifts on stock-ish trucks with slightly larger wheels for fun. Then it turned into just speed and cars only, with a truck around because I like to have a utility vehicle. I also have a ‘73 Buick and recently got it back on the road, so it’s now my tow rig and I got rid of my truck.

So I have a commuter DD in my Volt, ‘73 Buick for everything/I don’t know what, and a ‘54 MG because it’s kinda fun. The ‘73 Buick and ‘54 MG are both hand-me-downs from my family, so I’ve got very little money invested in either. It also means I didn’t really choose them - they chose me. The Volt is about the exact opposite of my previous DD, an ‘05 Yukon XL 2500 with the 8.1 V8. Talk about one extreme to the other!

Nonster > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 16:32

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For daily drivers or cars that see a lot of street duty I limit the modification to more subtle mods that can often be reversed. As you point out, most dramatic changes really hurt the streetability of a car.

I usually have a second car thats a for fun or project car. It used to be a Jeep CJ-7 that was a trail rig. It had lockers, large tires, low gearing, and flexy suspension. It was kinda terrifying to drive at any speed faster than 50 mph but I don’t think I ever took it on the interstate. Its job was to go off road.

Now I have an MR2 thats slowly becoming a track car. I still have kept the mods modest since I like daily driving it in the summer.

Steve in Manhattan > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 16:32

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Stock. Because, among other things, warranty.

Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 16:32

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OH MY GOD I MUST HAVE IT

FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 16:32

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Just make it yours. Personally, I’d give the Q45 a light vip treatment. But no crazy camber and stuff.

Nonster > deekster_caddy 01/20/2016 at 16:34

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geez reading that vehicle list was rollercoaster ride hahaha

Noah - Now with more boost. > Needmoargarage 01/20/2016 at 16:34

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Money is my main concern. I’m too young to make an “investment” like that. My car $$$ fund needs all the help it can get.

d15b > Needmoargarage 01/20/2016 at 16:36

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You passed that “threshold” far too many times, lol.

Noah - Now with more boost. > FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem 01/20/2016 at 16:38

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I really wish I could, that would look so cool. But I’d need thousands worth of parts and I just can’t afford that. It’s an expensive car to lower. $1200 total for 19-20" wheels + tires to fill the arches, $1500 for suspension which requires welding because of the way the Q is set up (so more labor), another $1000 replacing worn suspension parts... unfortunately it’s the exact opposite end of the spectrum from something like a Miata where you can stance it for well under $1200.

Noah - Now with more boost. > Jake - Has Bad Luck So You Don't Have To 01/20/2016 at 16:39

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YEP. My friends both own XJs and I hope I’ll get to ride around in something like that eventually!!

d15b > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 16:39

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I have a 1993 Honda Civic del Sol and a 2012 Acura TSX. Both are manual cars. It’s like driving the same car, but one has more amenities. The del Sol I just upgraded the suspension. These days, I know that the del Sol isn’t going to be “fast” (maybe quick, sure), so I left the intake/motor/headers/exhaust alone.

Suspension is a different story, however.

Noah - Now with more boost. > Steve in Manhattan 01/20/2016 at 16:40

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That too! I forgot. If it’s a used car you plan on keeping for a long time, and you won’t drive it every day, I can get behind modification. But that’s the only scenario.

Needmoargarage > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 16:41

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Understandable. When I was (not much) younger I felt the same way. I wouldn’t spend an extra dollar on a car. I justified modification by buying cars that were already wrecked, modifying while fixing them up, and when I was ready I was usually able to get all my money back.

I’m a bit the same way now, but every once in a while will spend a bit more for roll cage materials or better tires. Getting out of college and having an income majorly helps.

Noah - Now with more boost. > Nonster 01/20/2016 at 16:42

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That sounds like a fun car history. I want to buy into the Jeep lifestyle with a wrangler at some point... but definitely not as a daily driver for the reasons you stated

Noah - Now with more boost. > deekster_caddy 01/20/2016 at 16:43

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One extreme to the other indeed! But sometimes that’s a lot of fun. I bet you get some strange looks towing in that ‘73 Buick. Awesome lol.

Justin Hughes > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 16:43

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My definitive answer is “it depends.” I end up modifying everything I own at least a tiny bit. A while back when I didn’t have much money the name of the game was “mod the car you’re with.” That’s how I ended up souping up my Saturn SC2 even though it was my one and only car. But all I’ve done to my BRZ is wheels/tires, muffler, a mild tune, and some cosmetic/convenience stuff. After driving it for almost two years, I wouldn’t mind a more comfortable daily driver, but with the whole house thing going on I can’t afford to swap cars right now. There’s also my Comanche project, which I’m attacking as time and money allow. I’ve got nothing against tweaking that a bit, but for a specific purpose -winter DD and rally sweep vehicle. Neither of those calls for a lift and massive tires, although I’d like to try off roading sometime, because it’s a Jeep.

Generally speaking, though, I believe in the right tool for the right job. If I had a more comfortable DD, I’d modify the BRZ more for the track. Fortunately it’s pretty good even as it is, so I still have fun with it. It’s right about where I want it to be for daily driver/weekend warrior duty.

Noah - Now with more boost. > Needmoargarage 01/20/2016 at 16:44

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Yeah I’m at that lovely stage between college and having a job, it’s no fun!

deekster_caddy > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 16:45

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FWIW I think you’ve hit the nail on the head with your paragraphs about stance. I have no problem with somebody lowering their car. But if they need to swerve to avoid things that are part of our ‘normal’ poorly maintained roads, you’ve made it not only impractical, but dangerous. If your friend doesn’t mind replacing all of the stuff he breaks on a regular basis that’s all well and good for him. But if he tears the oilpan off at speed on a road he creates multiple hazards that wouldn’t be there had he chose to leave his car stock, or modify it in a ‘safe’ manner. Sometimes all it takes is a car in the breakdown lane to set off a chain of unintentional reactions that causes a high speed accident. If that car is broken down because the owner chose to modify it to a level at which the car IS the hazard, that’s a problem.

Noah - Now with more boost. > d15b 01/20/2016 at 16:45

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The Del Sol would be hilarious with a honda swap though! I could get behind that haha

Needmoargarage > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 16:45

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That’s the worst! Good job keeping your priorities in check...a lot of people can’t manage that. Best of luck to ya.

FSI - alcohol enthusiast with a car problem > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 16:46

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Ouch. Well, in that case I’d just enjoy the car as it is. It certainly looks like a super comfy cruiser. And sacrifying ride quality for good looks may be cool but as you said, it would probably become annoying after some time.

Gone > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 16:47

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DD? Stock - at most swaybars, tires (wheels?), and pads.

Not DD? Go big, go bad, have fun. Splitters, diffusers, dive planes, and a giant rear wing. Or for offroad then some lift, big tires, air lockers, etc. Barely driveable, barely passes inspection, but no fucks given.

Steve in Manhattan > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 16:47

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Don't want to void that thing.

deekster_caddy > Nonster 01/20/2016 at 16:49

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I’m trying to think of all the cars I’ve had over the years...

MGB, ‘73 Buick (still have), Cadillac Sedan DeVille (‘72), Cadillac Fleetwood (‘76), VW Rabbit diesel, Olds Omega, Dodge Ramcharger, Buick Century, Buick Riviera, 3/4 ton 4x4 Suburban, 1 ton Chevy van, ‘54 MG (still have), GMC Yukon XL and finally my ‘13 Volt. I have pictures of most of these somewhere, but not all of them. I think the Rabbit and Omega are missing from my photo library, but that’s okay - they were NOT noteworthy cars! The ‘98 Riviera was/is still my favorite.

Noah - Now with more boost. > deekster_caddy 01/20/2016 at 16:49

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Thanks, yeah that same friend just bought a Jeep XJ to escape his E36, which is off the road due to yet another issue. It’s hard to disagree with anything you’ve said there. TBH I think owning a heavily stanced car as your only car is a selfish decision, especially if it has horrible crash test ratings like that BMW. Nobody likes riding in it and it’s dangerous. Plus it attracts police attention like nothing else I’ve ridden in.

wiffleballtony > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 16:51

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I think it all depends on how you see the cars life ending. Do you plan on driving it into the ground or selling it. If it’s the former, make it your own. If it’s the latter then keep it stock or easily reverted to stock. I plan on modifying my car a lot, but I do plan on keeping it streetable.

RazoE > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 16:51

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Light mods on a daily, or if you have a reliable DD, then go HAM. That’s what I always do.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 16:53

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We only did a mild lift on our DD’ed Jeep Commander and a couple size bigger tires. Drastically, Drastically changed it’s appearance for the better without affecting drivability in any way.

I try to keep the modifications to the Montego as it’s not a daily.

Noah - Now with more boost. > RazoE 01/20/2016 at 16:54

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Yeah I fantasize about owning a condo in 2-3 years with a modified classic in the garage, and a tame DD in the parking lot.

Noah - Now with more boost. > wiffleballtony 01/20/2016 at 16:55

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Exactly. That’s where my “style” differs from my friends’ approach to modification. I don’t want to run anything into the ground unless I absolutely have to.

Noah - Now with more boost. > MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner 01/20/2016 at 16:57

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That’s definitely the way to go IMO. I want to minimize DD stress and maximize practicality.

wiffleballtony > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 17:03

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Makes sense. I have no intention of selling either of my cars. As such one of them I hope to turn into a track monster over the years. Right now it’s pretty lightly modded.

Ash78, voting early and often > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 17:16

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Love that Q, by the way. Keep the 5-spokes, maybe get a second set and plasti-dip?

I’m a fan of “OE+” — I never mod the car beyond what would be sellable to the original demographic, or maybe a decent sized enthusiast group. I always want to be able to fire sell it at Carmax if needed.

It should always look like a version the manufacturer intended, but never actually built.

I drove my 98 Passat for 14 years, the latter half mostly modded. Shortshifter? Great. I sold it after 8 years for as much as I paid. Lowering? Still glad I did it, but control arms failed faster and the car ate tires about 50% quicker than it should have. Not really worth it — I would have gone stiffer, but not as low. Other than that, mostly stock in appearance, which grew on me as time passed, especially having the characteristic late 90s amber blinkers and things like that.

Master Cylinder > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 17:26

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Because in many cases you can build something with better performance for less money*? Especially when you’re comparing to brand new cars. Comparing the price of a “better” used car to a build is a bit less of a value proposition, of course, but it still sometimes makes sense.

Plus, it’s fun to build a vehicle up.

*(Assuming you’re not paying someone else to do the work for you, that is)

Master Cylinder > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 17:29

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I have never owned a car I haven’t modded at least a little. I’ve never done anything to “ruin” a car, at least not in my opinion, but I would never be happy unless I did something to make a car “mine.” I almost never have more than one car at a time, so it’s pretty much always mods to my DD. I do also have a motorcycle I can ride while the car is being tinkered with, and vice versa.

For me, since I’m able to do basically all the work myself, and since I enjoy wrenching almost as much as I enjoy driving, it makes sense. It’s not for everyone, though.

Noah - Now with more boost. > Master Cylinder 01/20/2016 at 17:37

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Yeahhh I won’t have a second vehicle for quite a while. A motorcycle is a great solution to that problem though, TIL.

Noah - Now with more boost. > Ash78, voting early and often 01/20/2016 at 17:38

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Thanks! The Q is fun and I do like the 5 spokes, but they actually look pretty small in person even though they’re 17s

Scary__goongala! > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 17:47

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I don’t have any money for modifications, so I don’t have to decide.

Master Cylinder > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 18:05

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Yeah, I have no room for two cars, but a motorcycle doesn’t take up too much space.

d15b > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 18:50

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To be honest, I bought it because it was the right price at $1250, clean title and body, parts that are in common with an everyday civic....AND it’s a convertible.

It’s the only thing that makes SoCal bearable to me.

Noah - Now with more boost. > Scary__goongala! 01/20/2016 at 20:03

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Hey I’m right there with you, currently in between college and my first job, it’s no fun.

911e46z06 > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 21:52

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I just have a bunch of cars. Each one has its own little job to do, and is modified or kept stock depending on its function.

So my expedition rig is a ‘97 Tahoe. It’s lifted, has big balloon tires, a winch, off-road lights, a roof-rack and tie-downs for a 12' boat, a second battery, and some other stuff. I did it that way instead of buying a Raptor or something because I was able to build exactly what I need for under 10 grand. So since I don’t have much cash in it, I’m cool with scuffs and scrapes and dents and other shit that happens when you drive around in the desert.

My DD is a ‘15 CTS V-Sport. It’s bone stock because any mods would fuck with comfort, reliability, and gas mileage, plus possibly void my warranty. These are all contrary to the car’s purpose of ferrying my ass around in comfort and style.

So it just depends on where your priorities lie.

dietryng > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/20/2016 at 22:03

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decide what you need the vehicle to do, and dont ask it to do anything else

transportation. the cars’ only job is to get from point a to b. it doesnt have to be fast. doesnt have to haul a trailer or carry tools. so long as its reliably and or cheaply getting from work to the house ,its doing its job.

work. the only job is to reliably haul your tools and or equipment, for whatever you do. it doesnt need to get good mileage, or be fast.

fun. the car or truck that does whatever it is that is fun for you. whether its a lowrider, a drag car that goes fast in a straight line, or a car that goes around corners, mud truck with big tires. all it has to do is the fun thing that you do. doesnt have to get good economy, or haul tools/trailers.

point being, dont ask your car to do too many things well. youll just be miserable with it doing them poorly.

TheD0k_2many toys 2little time > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/21/2016 at 00:17

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MODIFY ALL THE CARS!!!!

I don’t own a single vehicle that doesn’t have some kind of mod done to it

Ash78, voting early and often > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/21/2016 at 08:49

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17s were still pretty big by that era’s standards. My Passat came with 15", which was EVERY midsize sedan around 2000. If you were edgy like the Maxima, you might have 16" with...GASP...optional 17"!

For tire cost and practicality, I’d never go over 18" on a DD. Depending on sidewall height and overall diameter, of course.

MontegoMan562 is a Capri RS Owner > Noah - Now with more boost. 01/21/2016 at 09:43

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Entire list of modifications on our 2 Daily Drivers:

Jeep:

Lift Kit (2 Inch spacer lift, same exact suspension)

3 size up tires from stock

Remote Start

Milan:

Rear Window Tint (only did it for my son riding back there to not be blinded)

Remote Start

Bluetooth Stereo upgrade (when the old stock unit’s screen died on me)

—-

That’s it. I’m looking to sell the Milan soon anyhow, no point in putting a ton into it.